Brad Eather (00:01.573)
Hello and welcome to the Selling's Creative Podcast, a podcast exploring creativity's role in sales, leadership and business. I'm your host, Brad Eather, a digital communication strategist helping business owners and sales teams leverage digital communication strategies. From where I'm sitting, I see a change across the sales industry, where sales professionals once went out and communicated one to one with clients.
and prospects tools like social media are now allowing the humble salesperson to communicate at scale. But communication at scales requires a new toolkit, new skills and a propensity to take the leap of faith and jump headfirst into a new world of social media and digital communications. Well, that transition from the old world to the new is not something that hasn't been seen before and nowhere has this transition been more apparent than in the music industry.
Where once artists could be artists, now they must be content creators too. Well, today's episode is all about getting a glimpse into our potential future as salespeople. Today's guest has worn just about every hat in the music industry, from chart-topping singer-songwriter to global performer, collaborating with artists like Lil Jon, Marsha Hines, and Russell Crowe. But that's just a start.
Ronny (01:18.574)
Thank
Brad Eather (01:28.75)
He's also found himself as a tour manager, event producer. And if that wasn't enough, his corporate business acumen is equally as impressive being the former CEO of the Abbey Road Institute and general manager of Studios 301, Australia's premier recording facility. Simply put, his career is a masterclass in creativity, strategy and adaptability. So welcome to the show, Ron Haryanto
Ronny (01:58.22)
Hey Brad, hey, thanks for having me. Can I take you everywhere and just do that intro all the time?
Brad Eather (02:02.928)
Of course, man. I'm more than more than happy to tour the world with you. Get me up on stage, bro.
Ronny (02:10.06)
Amazing. yeah, no, I mean, yeah. We can go full circle. It'd be great.
Brad Eather (02:16.762)
Yeah, you could teach me some singing lessons along the way. Now, Ron, before we kick off, I want to take a quick trip down memory lane because yourself and I go quite a long way back when I had the pleasure of engineering many of your corporate shows week in and week out. And at that time, I believe you just recently moved from Sydney to Sydney from Perth, I believe, via Newcastle. And...
Ronny (02:19.342)
Hahaha
Ronny (02:43.118)
Yeah, yeah, I was in Perth for a hot minute. And yeah, had had moved over, I think I've been over for for a couple of years. Then was just kind of doing the thing. paying rent actually, if I was on those gigs, was definitely paying rent.
Brad Eather (03:02.372)
Yeah. So when you moved, it's my understanding that you didn't really have any connections. So I was wondering, for anyone out there thinking about how they can get a foot in the door to any industry, can you talk to me about your initial experience moving to Sydney and how you went about opening some of those doors that led you to where you are today?
Ronny (03:25.258)
I think, you know, when we had a chat before, it was, it was a little bit of a, it's all, it's all a mindset thing, right? When I moved, when I moved across, I probably could count the amount of people I knew in Sydney on one hand. And it was, you know, this is aging myself. I kind of just told every single person that I knew or, which was, which wasn't many was, it was on one hand.
what my plans were, what I wanted to do and just kind of ask them if they could introduce me to someone or if they knew anyone that could help me in that direction. I bought a, back then it was a physical music directory. So it was basically, basically you could buy this music directory that had the names of everyone in the music industry that wanted to be contacted. And I think I nearly hit every single person up in that.
or all the people that I thought were relevant, asking them, basically saying, hey, this is who I am. These are the things that I want to achieve. want a publishing deal. I want a record deal. Here's demos. I will call you in a week from the email. then I sent them anyone with a physical address. sent demos. I did all that sort of stuff. And I just relentlessly was on this pursuit of this is what I want to do.
Brad Eather (04:50.032)
So at that time, what were you trying to achieve?
Ronny (04:53.294)
I'm just trying to think back, the timelines get a bit weird, but when I first turned up in Sydney, I was hell bent I wanted to be a songwriter and I wanted to be an artist. And it was one of, it was those two things in parallel, not one or the other.
Brad Eather (05:13.37)
So we won't necessarily put you out there and reveal your age, you young looking man. But what I wanted to talk about, you did grow up in an era where that transition was happening. The handover between the old music industry where you were hitting up A &R people, presumably, and...
Ronny (05:21.762)
Ha ha ha!
Ronny (05:38.702)
Oh yeah, no, I, this was very, this was firmly what? 15, nearly 15 years ago. So this is before streaming. This is before, you know, before most social media. I think Facebook was just around. Maybe Instagram, if you're lucky, but there were no smartphones. So I didn't have a smartphone, so I wasn't on Instagram. I used to borrow my then girlfriends.
iPhone to post on Instagram. Yeah, like the tools were really limited and it was a physical music directory kind of game.
Brad Eather (06:19.726)
Yeah. So I suppose it is cool, right? I think like, and I think as I tried to draw that parallel at beginning, that's kind of where sales finds itself now that transition period where we have the tools available to us to adopt a different approach, but the old guard still very much in place. So, I mean, you've, you succeeded.
Ronny (06:21.198)
Which is kind of cool.
Brad Eather (06:48.278)
sounds like you managed to get in there. You at the time were presenting yourself as a recording artist and you succeeded. Do want to just talk us through that little bit of your career before we jump into like maybe a historical account of like how things have changed?
Ronny (07:10.626)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so like, what was it? 2025. So what we're talking in 2010, 2010 ish. I think I just, every single person that, that I met was, it was the same thing. was like, these are the things that I want to do. Do you, do you know anyone? and then from person to person, like it started with, had a really big champion, Rosano from sound, sound unlimited posse, that had introduced me to a number of people and it's like,
It's like every single, I suppose maybe using, borrowing some terminology from your world, every single lead that I had and every single lead that we had, was just explore that and see where that takes us. And then just keep on trying to put myself into new rooms and new experiences until, and then even just, you know, just pushing and turning up even when I didn't know what the end result was going to be. And I think I ended up
And my songwriting production partner at the time was having a meeting for one of his artists. I was literally, we would just go around together and I was sitting in lobby in reception while he was having a meeting. And the manager ended up being really interested in all of the songs that were written and were like, who's writing all this stuff? And it's like, I'm a songwriting partner. He's in the reception. It's like, bring him in. And then we ended up getting signed to a development deal there. For some reason, I found myself in Malaysia and basically did the same thing.
hit. Like we went out to Malaysia for an opportunity that wasn't really an opportunity and then I just went on the internet any email that I could find any telephone number that I could find I would call I would email and just took relentless meetings until we ended up meeting an artist there and doing a single with her she could pay us so I was like well
I have to stay on the single as a feature artist then. And we did a single for her, that ended up going number one and going crazy. I mean, it's just, I suppose it's just finding a way, right? I mean, regardless of the tools, whatever's available, if you're relentless enough, then you'll find a way,
Brad Eather (09:15.056)
Mm.
Brad Eather (09:22.788)
Yeah, because like what comes through there is this idea of passion and ownership. You had a passion and a drive to get to where you wanted and you've really where other people might just have a passion and write the music. They don't take ownership of that career and go the extra mile and make those calls as you were doing to to really put themselves in the right rooms as you said.
Ronny (09:45.283)
Yeah.
Ronny (09:51.404)
Yeah, I mean, I see it now, but I've got a good friend that's always been, I feel like a one step ahead of the curve in terms of the self promotion and the things like that. But yeah, it's you've got to just find find ways. mean, behind that is not just hustle behind that is a lot of work on on what it is that you're doing as well. Like in in parallel, like we're writing two, three songs a day like
I'm doing the work on that side. it feels like, you know, the pushing and the hustling and all of that stuff is, the necessity because the other work has been done or it's being done and you're improving. It's not just one or the other. all in parallel.
Brad Eather (10:34.512)
Mm.
Brad Eather (10:39.352)
Yeah. Sweet.
Ronny (10:40.374)
And I think that gives you the confidence to able to step into rooms and say, I am who I am because I know that I'm doing the work, you know.
Brad Eather (10:48.226)
Yeah, absolutely. So I want to sort of position this as a kind of shift. So as we sort of discussed, that's how you did it in that time. Things have changed now. How would you do it differently if you were going to start where you were now because of social media and things? How do think your mindset would shift?
Ronny (10:59.331)
Yeah.
Ronny (11:13.193)
Um, it's an interesting question. Obviously something that I'm still trying to figure out, to be honest. I mean, like I'm now back at what it feels like the start of a journey. You know, 1515 years later. I think it's the same thing. I think it's still trying to I mean, for me, the way that I'm I suppose I can only speak on the way that I think I'm approaching it now.
is, you know, I always used to look at here's the industry, here are all the rocks that are all facing down. You have to go and turn every single rock and have that conversation and figure out whether that person is on your side or whether that person's not, whether that's a door that's open or whether that's a door that's closed. You know, I think...
Brad Eather (11:46.852)
Mm-hmm.
Ronny (12:02.7)
You have to have conversations. have to figure out who's on your side and who's not. You have to still do the work in the background to present. So, you know that you're presenting as someone that knows what the hell they're doing and talking about. it's the same. There's just more tools. mean, like there's a, the thing that's different is, that you can now, I suppose, maybe jump, jump a couple of steps and present.
to the world at mass and get people to hook down like as this by showing a lot of your cards at the start. You know what I mean?
Brad Eather (12:33.519)
Mm.
Brad Eather (12:45.2)
Cause, cause yeah, I do know what you mean. Cause I suppose what I'm really trying to get at is how, how have the expectations shifted in the industry perspective as an artist? Because essentially what you're saying there is that maybe the strategy, if we're going to put ourselves in an artist perspective is like, instead of having to pick up those calls, we can actually create content for the purpose of, you know, potentially getting into a door at a music studio or
go a completely different direction and take ownership of your career. So I'm just sort of wondering, yeah, as if you were going to put yourself purely in that, as you said, there's two camps going out and hustling, hustling, and then putting yourself in the creative shoes as a creative, how do you think the expectations have shifted over the last 10 years?
Ronny (13:35.508)
I think, expectations over the last couple of years is a really good, is a really good way to put it. think the expectation on people now is that you have to do everything because the tools are available and because the access is available. The expectation is that you have to actually do everything. so you have to, you know, you have to be a fully formed,
You have to be a fully formed artist that is utilizing all of the tools that is your own marketing manager, is your own content creator, is your own X, Y, Z. You have to kind of do a little bit of everything at the moment, which is now kind of blurring the lines. mean, you even see, I think I was reading this morning, you know, rapper Young Thug is like, I don't want to be a rapper anymore. I want to be a streamer. Like I want to be a content creator. Like you have to be.
being an artist means so much more now via necessity. mean, kind of like anyone navigating through now, have to, you can't just be a silent, invisible person that's navigating through in the background. You can if you want to do a tiny bit of something, but you have to kind of, you have to be visible. You have to participate in all, in all of the ways. Like, I mean, I, I didn't even know how, how my,
how my career would have changed having all of the tools that's available now for people. Like, you know, I was like literally calling people up saying, hey, meet me here and then going to that place and then waiting all day in a smoky cigar room for someone to not turn up, like doing stuff like that where, you know, you could probably approach it much, much easier now, maybe. But at the end of the day, you've still got to, you know,
Brad Eather (15:29.989)
Mm.
Ronny (15:33.934)
You've still got to get to that point as well. If there's people holding keys, you still have to have, have to meet them. It's just that they get a better, they can get a better glimpse and a better chance to say yes or no now based on what you can provide them that you couldn't back then.
Brad Eather (15:49.582)
Yeah. Cause it's a, it's a, it's a funny one. from an outsider looking into that industry, the creative aspect of the work that you're producing and then the business acumen that you need to sort of have at the same time and go on.
Ronny (16:05.378)
Yeah.
Ronny (16:10.53)
Well, I was about say the game has changed though, and it probably has for you now. It's all about metrics. It's all about numbers. It's all about what you can kind of do. So you have to be kind of an alchemist on that side now as well to even get attention. It's not about what looks the shiniest and what is not. To be honest, I would say half the ANRs don't even know what... Can I swear on this podcast? I would say...
Brad Eather (16:34.958)
Yeah, I'll just have to put...
Ronny (16:37.014)
I would say a lot of people don't even really know what the fuck they're doing. It's not about taste, it's about metrics now. So much of the game has changed in the last 15 years. It's a really hard question to answer because it's a different game. It's like changing codes, really. Using a sporting analogy, it's changed so far.
Brad Eather (16:49.946)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (16:56.624)
Mmm.
Ronny (17:01.634)
that it's like I said, it feels like I am starting again, like 15 years later, it's starting again, it's never getting through. Like, you know, I've been hell bent on this personal brand thing, which is the start of me building a big brand. You know, it all starts, all starts again.
Brad Eather (17:13.678)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (17:17.04)
Yeah, because I suppose like, again, I'm looking in and I've have a little bit of an insight into behind the scenes nowhere near as you but if you were looking at artists, right, like, let's go all the way back to the 60s, where the massive budget spends and you have that trope of musicians spending
Ronny (17:28.002)
Yep.
Brad Eather (17:39.632)
months and months, if not years, producing, perfecting an album before release. And then now we're coming into a world where the expectations on people are actually, they've got to manage so much, which brings that timeline down from having the luxury of being able to spend and perfect on something to having to essentially
Ronny (17:45.239)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (18:07.278)
promotes as quick as you're creating in a way. I mean, some people might look at it differently. So I'm wondering, like, how do you think that's kind of... How do you think that has changed in terms of, like, the perfection in curation of the artistry and, I suppose, taking into consider both the actual art itself and the media that supports it? How has that changed in terms of speed and that kind of stuff?
Ronny (18:35.758)
It's all about access now, right? Like, I think it's a little bit of an equal playing field for anyone that isn't a superstar. So I mean, like, you know, you're, you're, people, people need to understand that if you're a Taylor Swift, it's not, you're not just running and gunning, like there's a whole, you have a whole team that is helping you do that. But
Brad Eather (18:44.194)
Mm.
Ronny (19:00.364)
You can still do the same thing as an indie artist. You can still do the same thing as a young person. can still like the it's it's the access and speed. People want things now. People's people's attention spans are so limited now because we're so spoiled for choice. I mean, like, you know,
we can jump on a YouTube or a Facebook or an Instagram or a TikTok or whatever. And if you don't get hooked in three seconds, then it's done. You could spend $10,000 on a music video. And if you only post it on YouTube, who's going to watch it? So now people are like, well, why do I need to do that? I can just.
Brad Eather (19:30.521)
Hmm.
Ronny (19:35.872)
curate something or even just capture something or capture the process itself and hook people you know but it's like once you hook people what do do then like i'm not sure anyone's heard from what's what's the dude's name that like huge tiktok song that was like he was like
He was massive on TikTok and then he literally rebelled and was like, I'm not a TikTok artist. I don't want people to know me for this. then, okay. How do you convert after that?
Brad Eather (19:59.267)
yes, I can't remember his name.
Brad Eather (20:12.622)
Yeah, yeah. Because I suppose like, what do think it does for creativity? What do you like? Do you think do you think the nature of having to be creative in different outlets actually makes you more creative? Or?
Ronny (20:27.34)
You know, without sounding like, I don't want to sound like old man shakes fist at cloud, right? I don't want be like, this is terrible for creatives. think, I think there's an evolution like, like, like there is for everyone. think.
Brad Eather (20:31.797)
Hahaha!
Ronny (20:45.548)
I think it's hard because there's definitely a generational difference, right? People from my generation come from a generation where you want someone to come and save you, you wanna create the shiniest product, you wanna think that you wanna spend a year on a project and it'd be the most perfect thing. But now it's probably a bit more about vibes.
a bit more about here's the formula, the hook needs to appear in the first three seconds, all of that sort of stuff. It's just like what can catch people's attention straight away. But I think people still want artistry. Artists still want to be artists. They just...
They just are forced into this game where they have to do a bit of both. mean, I'm sure that the artists now want you to hear their soul. They want you to hear all of the things that they have to offer, but the way that they're going to get you is by they have to do some of this other stuff as well, you know?
Brad Eather (21:49.552)
I'm going to try to make a little parallel here from what I see from the sales industry. And I'm wondering if you maybe agree with the music industry, but if I was to draw a triangle and I'll see if this comes up on the screen. The triangle, right? And
Ronny (22:06.476)
Yeah. Yeah.
Brad Eather (22:10.006)
Up here is the Taylor Swift's. Up here is the people that have perfected what they're doing and the production value gets really high. But down here is the independent artists and the people that are doing it with their own tools. It's the same thing in sales. The people that have perfected it, the people who are just starting out and honing their digital literacy skills, right? And I feel like
Ronny (22:32.738)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (22:36.43)
These people show up on your feed. These people don't. And it's a trajectory that you need to go through a learning progress that takes you from here to here. And these people in the middle, you that might be all you achieve, but that's where you get, you're still going to get a result in that middle bit. Does that make sense? And.
Ronny (22:56.802)
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Brad Eather (22:59.822)
That's kind of where I see a lot of salespeople, a lot of salespeople refusing to take that leap into that first, that first little bit. And I think that maybe if we were going to contextualize this as hesitancy, maybe that's where you found yourself or found people around you in that crossover transition period of a hesitancy to take that first step into a new world, which is a digital world. What, what do you think?
Ronny (23:30.114)
Yeah, I think it's tough. think...
Ronny (23:36.426)
Not only is it people that don't want to take that step, it's people that have entered the industry at a different level as well. Like if you're an artist just becoming an artist now, you know what the expectation is. Like you are a creator that you are more creator than artist. Like there's so many different, I suppose there's so many different camps. It's a real tough one, but it's...
The industry is the way it is now. It's not going backwards. It's not going back to a point where you can be like, hey, I don't want to participate in this thing. So you have to participate. If you want to be in the game, you have to participate, right? You can't just be a commentator from the stands complaining about how the game has changed and expect to get on the radar.
Brad Eather (24:31.194)
Sales people out there, that's exactly the message I'm trying to get across. Participation. That's all that's required.
Ronny (24:37.87)
It's always about participation, right? Like, you've got to be, you have to, you have to be an active participant in this thing always. And that's what I've always tried to do is wherever this journey has taken me on the business side and throughout everything else, I've always tried to be an active participant in releasing music and
being a performer as well. Like that hasn't really stopped because I I figure like if I'm going to talk to people about their careers, whether that be on the engineering side, whether that be on young artists, then I kind of need to know what I'm talking about.
Brad Eather (25:18.608)
Yeah, you gotta have a holistic understanding of every aspect.
Ronny (25:24.982)
Yeah. And I don't know, maybe selfishly because I've done a lot of these things. And because I've stayed as an active participant, I feel like I'm probably more qualified than most to speak to a young artist. Whereas like sometimes I just kind of roll my eyes at your your new town lifers that haven't really, they've only ever been involved in the industry in one part now telling people about how they can be mentored the best and blah, blah, blah, like
I don't know, a bit of a, I think the thing that, the thing that makes me so curious is that I'm a really big cynic as well. I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a cynic on, on so much, which makes me curious. I'm like, well, what do I think is the proper way and how do I find that? And how do I do it? Not that I feel like I know better. It's just that I'm not convinced that
Brad Eather (26:03.151)
Hmm
Ronny (26:18.474)
Sometimes what we're being fed has the right messages and if I was a kid whether I would actually care
Brad Eather (26:26.35)
Yeah, that's a really interesting point. and it's maybe a theme that I try to talk about, the, through the act of participating gives you a lens where you can actually think for yourself with when it comes to digital messages and someone says something you can, you have a much better frame of reference to say,
Do I actually agree with that? Because everybody's pushing the same thing. But you know, there's going to be people that you agree with online and there's going to be people that you don't. It's maybe not necessarily a conversation for this, this particular podcast, but it's an interesting observation.
Ronny (27:12.642)
man, I like anything like how do you, how do you qualify and quantify your messages in this, in this day and age, and even now in the digital world, it's so much, so much more like a you are we listening to the people that are the most successful in the digital space? So we listen to the people that have the experience in what you're, you're trying to do specifically coupled with
Brad Eather (27:36.08)
Mm.
Ronny (27:38.562)
being successful in the digital space. You know what I mean? It's like, this big, do you qualify your teachers and your messengers and all that sort of stuff?
Brad Eather (27:50.64)
The one thing that I like to sort of think is like there's people out there who are loud that can teach you how to do it their way. But then there's other people out there that can teach you how to do it your way.
Ronny (28:04.044)
Yeah, I mean, if you're if you want to be a successful artist, are you listening to the advice from successful artists or are you listening to the people that have only ever worked in community projects?
Ronny (28:16.27)
I mean, like, I know that's probably that's, that's, that's might be salty to a lot of a lot of people in the industry that I'm sure are trying to do amazing things. But like, what have you done to be the person to, to advise these people? And what have you done now?
Brad Eather (28:30.831)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (28:34.64)
Well, this is probably a great time to take the conversation away from the creativity, creative side and into the business world. So can you speak to me about how you found yourself in business? and I'm particularly interested in how, um, creativities maybe, uh, affected your decision making in business level discussions.
Ronny (28:43.565)
Yeah.
Ronny (29:00.044)
Right. I think because I was essentially just pushing and trying to push every single avenue. And it started for me, like, to be honest, it started with me trying to figure out how to play songs as songwriter. One second, I have a groaning puppy that's trying to get out of a door. Let me just open this up. One second.
Brad Eather (29:22.896)
You
Ronny (29:27.894)
Yeah, so I think my my I'll use this analogy in terms of how I found myself in business, right? Because I know I've always worked professionally and, you know, to fund the music side anyway, so it wasn't like I was like, just a musician, and then was like, hey, here's an opportunity. So I mean, it kind of started with me trying to figure out how to play songs. It's like, if I'm going to write a song, if I'm in Sony writing a song,
for a justice crew or your Shannon Noel or whoever. How, how do I, how do I get this song placed? So it was like, okay, relationship with an artist tick have great relationship with the boys. Songs aren't going across. Who do I need to talk to? Okay. Management. Get a relationship with those guys. Tick or maybe not. Maybe it's the ANRs that I need to speak with. Okay, cool. Form a relationship with the ANRs. Or maybe it's the
General manager at the label. Tick and then just me just trying to navigate through and find find a way right like kind of like what I was saying back at the start. throughout all of this, I started making connections across the board from bottom to top or however you want to kind of look at it of people in all different spaces eventually fast forward a couple of years after a couple of you know.
success in Asia, number one success here on the club charts and, but also a bigger network. I decided that I wanted to pull all of my resources into a creative agency because I'm like, Hey, I've worked with all these people. I've got your, you know, your marshes and your little Johns and all these people on the resume plus hits. I want to take this over to corporate world and, know, try to sell the music sexiness into that. I wanted to create a creative agency in parallel.
A friend of mine who had just been brought on as part of the 301 Abbey Road crew had been watching this trajectory and seeing where I was in the music industry and he knew what I wanted to create and he knew the doors that I and the relationships that I had and was like, there's an opportunity to come and join 301 in that capacity.
Ronny (31:44.364)
because you're navigating through and because you're doing what you're doing, we think, you know, you'd be, you'd be a relevant person for this. And I kind of got an opportunity. and then, things happen really fast. and then a couple of years later, I find myself as general manager at three on one. So it's kind of like,
Any door that's opened, people open doors, they don't keep you in places. You've got to make sure that you keep yourself in places and kind of push. But for me, always any door that's open is just me trying to figure out how to...
Brad Eather (32:19.408)
Mmm.
Ronny (32:30.486)
to navigate through to the best of my ability. So I just kind of applied all of my previous experiences, know, in PR or in recruitment and in all of those things and managing my career on top of a business and kind of looked at it the same way.
Brad Eather (32:45.016)
Hmm. So maybe something I didn't mention at beginning is where you find yourself now. And in the prep interview, we discussed a pretty cool opportunity that you've created for yourself and talking about factory at this point. And you
Ronny (33:05.704)
yeah yeah.
Brad Eather (33:11.278)
you created an opportunity and I thought that the way that you created that opportunity was a story worth telling from a creative perspective because essentially what I'd love you to talk about is what strengths you saw in yourself and how you expanded something that didn't really have a clear vision at the beginning to something that's that's now now come to fruition.
Ronny (33:39.0)
I think it's a relationship thing, right? this, suppose my role at Factory now, so I had community and partnerships and I oversee their events, was something that I kind of pitched to Jay the owner and my relationship with Factory started with the former.
the former business owner, we got close via wanting to do partnerships and things that 301. And then I went and worked for Peter Ricks for a year doing events post 301. And when I knew that was coming to an end, kind of just ricks back out and I'm like, what are my strengths? And for me, it's
building community, running events, doing all of the things that I did at 301, but also having this network and community still of creatives that I'm like, what am I, what value does this hold if I'm not actually doing things in the community? So yeah, got back in touch with Jan. was like, Hey,
I'd really love to work with you guys in some capacity. These are the things that I was doing at 301. Essentially, these are my strengths. mean, what is the most compelling thing that we could be doing together and what can I be doing for you? Here's what I think it could be. And then kind of just creating that, like manifesting that, I suppose. There wasn't really a role that, there wasn't a role that...
Brad Eather (34:58.096)
Mm.
Ronny (35:17.664)
I was going for it was more along the lines of relationship wise here are the things that I can bring to the table here are the things that I think I can create. Do you want to do that? And that's I suppose the same the same with the same with the guys down at synth temple in Melbourne. It was the same thing like I I've been introduced to Tony via via the CEO of Aria.
Brad Eather (35:28.112)
Mmm.
Ronny (35:43.566)
And we were kind of just talking and I was just kind of advising and it got to a point where I'm like, Hey, do you, would you like me to come and contribute? So, yeah, it's a, it's an, it's an interesting one. Like I haven't really applied for any jobs. So not lately anyway, not for years.
Brad Eather (36:02.796)
So I want to, because I think what that lends itself to is confidence. And I'm wondering if you could maybe speak to understanding that everybody has anxieties about certain things and what gives you that confidence just to take something out of thin air and pitch it.
Ronny (36:18.592)
yeah.
Ronny (36:26.542)
I wrote blog about this recently in terms of what is the catalyst for change and what is the catalyst for creation and creating new identity and things like that. Yeah, it is confidence, but at the same time, it's finding it's...
pushing yourself into a bit of a corner. mean, I know that I, that I do this really consciously. I mean, sorry, maybe not even consciously, but I, I can recognize that I do this. It's like pushing things into a corner where it's like, this is a necessity. I've now said that I'm going to do all of these things. And I said that I've wanted to do these things. I need to now go and create that. Like I, the confidence for me now is the fact that I,
I've done a few, I've done a few things now. I'm like 15 years now deep in Sydney in the music industry. Um, you know, we recently applied for a grant for a government grant and I had to go through my resume and go just write about all the things that I've done and all the things that I created. I looked at it on paper and was like, Holy shit. Like, okay, I can move forward with the confidence that I know that I created all those things. Like, and I'm not just talking about, Oh,
Brad Eather (37:47.566)
Yeah.
Ronny (37:51.562)
These things happened and I got experience from them, which is a vast lot of things. But then the layer on top of that is that I created all of these things on top of that. So it's then being able to go, okay.
In conversations with people now, I suppose the thing that I do is kind of go here's my experience and here's what I've created, but here's what I think that we can do together. Which is the real exciting part for me because I never really want to play the hits and...
Brad Eather (38:18.768)
Mm.
Ronny (38:28.449)
do the same things. want to create new things. And that's because at the end of the day, I'm this idealistic creative that wants to be constantly doing that stuff.
Brad Eather (38:40.016)
Well, think actually what you just said ties really back nicely into the beginning of the conversation where we were talking about taking ownership of certain things and it's through taking ownership and maybe maybe what you've talked about is promising something that you don't actually know how it's going to work yet and then having to figure out how those pieces are going to come together.
But that's what gives you the confidence. Taking ownership, having confidence in your ability that you'll just get it done because you've taken that ownership.
Ronny (39:15.042)
Yeah, I mean, I like to actually like to just sit and I think we did this even before this this podcast we sat and we just talked right we talked about and then our conversation moved quickly into these abstract well, maybe it's this maybe it's that I think I think lots of people just want to be part of a creative process, even if they're not creatives.
Brad Eather (39:23.621)
Yeah.
Ronny (39:44.334)
or they at least want to see it. And what I think what I'm experiencing is that maybe lots of people aren't creative. And they just really love to be part of that process or be working with people that can bring ideas to the table.
you know, the more sometimes the more rooms that I sit in, the more I speak out loud, especially about creative stuff, the more I realized that people, you know, people want that people need that people, people want to be able to look at things creatively and look at things in ways that they don't say even, you know, it's the most talented people that I know, sometimes talking to them about career things and they're like, Hey, I, I would have never thought blues guy like this. Like, I'm very, very focused on being the expert and the elite person in
Brad Eather (40:33.552)
Mm.
Ronny (40:37.456)
this space, but I would have never thought about applying it in that way, which is what I'm enjoying now about all the partnerships and all the other things. Like I'm being challenged now to think completely outside the square, which I'm really enjoying.
Brad Eather (40:41.774)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (40:52.185)
Yeah.
I love that. And I'd love to hear your opinion on this final question. What's your definition of creativity?
Ronny (41:01.132)
Yeah.
Ronny (41:09.09)
Being able to, I mean, okay, I thought about this, my definition of creativity, being able to provide.
guidance, clarity, and some form of picture in the absence of where there isn't one. So whether that's at an inception stage, being able to go, okay, here's the big picture, or at a problem, challenge stage, where people are like, my God, what are we gonna do? And you're able to kind of come in and go, okay, well.
let's talk about this here, here is the here is potential the opportunity or here's the ways that we can kind of do that. think creativity is like that. I was trying to think of what the name of the movie is the guy with the crayon and he kind of draws and he draws reality in. I think that's literally like a visual definition of like what creativity is. It's being able to provide a picture and certainty to, to people's questions.
Brad Eather (42:16.962)
I really like that. And I appreciate you taking the time to consider that because that's a really nice framework. What you've put forward there. The through the process of asking this question to I mean, you are the first let's call it creative that I've posed the question to. And some of the other things that have come up with the notion that it's taking it
It's fitting within a framework and then deviating from the framework slightly. It's having the ability to take disparate ideas and then bring them together in some sort of way. It's all very much taking risks, intellectually orientated. And I really like that coming from you, you have a really similar
view on it because I don't know maybe maybe the answer is different if you were answering for a creative person but
Ronny (43:20.404)
No, I think it's the same. It's the same. It's like your experience in your context create the framework, right? So let's say someone come to me and it's like, Hey, we want to write a pop song. I'm like, cool.
Brad Eather (43:30.544)
Mm.
Ronny (43:36.694)
So most people are like, okay, we want it to stream. We want it to be on TikTok. That means the hook needs to appear in the first 10 seconds. That means it needs to probably have two, two choruses and one verse. Now it probably needs to be in between two to three minutes. Like the context provides the framework. And in terms of your ideas, it's open slather with whatever you can fit into that kind of thing. And you can look at that as a problem in terms of your skillset. It's like, damn, I have to create that. Or you can look at it as that's just the
way it is and I mean like in a business sense I think.
people's experience create the framework, right? And that's what you've always got to bring it back to. But I mean, you talk about not, not break, you talk about breaking rules and all that sort of stuff. That's what creativity is. mean, like, but it's your, it's up to you to bring that back to the framework because you know, some, some of the best ideas are from some of the most unhinged people thought wise anyway, it's just like, wow. Like,
But sometimes it might just be crazy enough to work. You've just got to allow yourself to think bigger and allow yourself to think different.
Brad Eather (44:49.442)
Awesome, man. Awesome. Love that. Listen, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks for joining me on the Selling's Creative Podcast. If people want to get in touch, I know that you've got some exciting things coming up that we're not quite ready to talk about. But if people want to follow your journey and see where this next chapter of your life takes you, where can they follow along?
Ronny (45:03.118)
Yeah.
Ronny (45:12.142)
You can follow along on like LinkedIn Ron Harrianto. I've got a whole blog set about me with my unfiltered thoughts on Instagram at brand new Jones Yeah building some really really cool stuff in the pathway especially for creative space so that's
happening right now. mean, I'm trying to do one of these things of what trying to try to build my own podcast as well, to be visible in this whole journey thing. So it's all happening. But thanks for the opportunity. I mean, I literally could sit and talk to you for ever about this stuff. So
Brad Eather (45:45.423)
Yeah.
Brad Eather (45:50.96)
I appreciate it, maybe we get another opportunity at some point. So it's always good to catch up with you mate. Really appreciate you coming onto the show. So for everyone out there, thank you for listening to the Sellings Creative Podcast. If you've enjoyed the episode, as always, like and subscribe. And in the meantime, happy selling.
Ronny (45:57.262)
I'm sure we will.
Ronny (46:16.608)
Awesome.
