ï»ż00:00 - The Reality of Digital Transformation in Legacy Industries
Brad Eather: Hello and welcome to the Selling's Creative Podcast, a show exploring creativity's role in sales, leadership, and business. I'm your host, Brad Eather, a digital communication strategist helping business owners and sales teams leverage digital communication strategies.
From where I'm sitting, I see a change across the sales industry. Where sales professionals once went out and communicated one-to-one with clients and prospects, tools like social media are now allowing the humble salesperson to communicate at scale. But communication at scale requires a new toolkit, new skills, and a propensity to take a leap of faith and jump headfirst into a new world of social media and digital communications.
This transition from the old world to the new is not something that hasn't been seen before, and nowhere has this transition been more apparent than in the music industry. Where once artists could simply be artists, now they must be content creators too. Today's episode is all about getting a glimpse into our potential future as salespeople. Today's guest has worn just about every hat in the music industry, from chart-topping singer-songwriter to global performer, collaborating with artists like Lil Jon, Marcia Hines, and Russell Crowe.
He's also found success as a tour manager and event producer. If that wasn't enough, his corporate business acumen is equally impressive, being the former CEO of the Abbey Road Institute and the general manager of Studios 301, Australia's premier recording facility. Simply put, his career is a masterclass in creativity, strategy, and adaptability. Welcome to the show, Ron Haryanto.
Ronny: Hey Brad, thanks for having me. Can I take you everywhere and just have you do that intro all the time?
Brad Eather: Of course, man. I'm more than happy to tour the world with you. Get me up on stage, bro.
Ronny: Amazing. We can go full circle; it'd be great.
Brad Eather: Yeah, you could teach me some singing lessons along the way.
02:55 - How to Open Doors in a New Industry With Zero Initial Connections
Brad Eather: Now, Ron, before we kick off, I want to take a quick trip down memory lane because you and I go quite a long way back to when I had the pleasure of engineering many of your corporate shows week in and week out. At that time, you had recently moved to Sydney from Perth via Newcastle.
When you moved, it's my understanding that you didn't really have any connections. For anyone out there thinking about how they can get a foot in the door in any industry, can you talk to me about your initial experience moving to Sydney and how you went about opening those doors that led to where you are today?
Ronny: I think it's all a mindset thing. When I moved across, I probably could count the amount of people I knew in Sydney on one hand. I basically told every single person I knewâwhich wasn't manyâwhat my plans were and what I wanted to do. I just asked them if they could introduce me to someone or if they knew anyone that could help me in that direction.
Back then, I bought a physical music directory. It was a directory that had the names of everyone in the music industry who wanted to be contacted. I think I hit up nearly every single relevant person in that directory. I basically said, "Hey, this is who I am. These are the things that I want to achieve. I want a publishing deal, I want a record deal, and here are my demos. I will call you a week after this email." I sent physical demos to anyone with a physical address. I did all that sort of stuff and was just relentlessly on this pursuit of what I wanted to do.
05:34 - Transitioning to Modern Digital Communication Strategies
Brad Eather: At that time, what exactly were you trying to achieve?
Ronny: When I first turned up in Sydney, I was hell-bent on being a songwriter and an artist. It was one of those things where I pursued both paths in parallel, not one or the other.
Brad Eather: You grew up in an era where that transition was actively happeningâthe handover between the old music industry, where you were hitting up A&R people, and the modern era.
Ronny: Oh yeah, this was firmly nearly 15 years ago. This was before streaming and before most modern social media. I think Facebook was just around. Maybe Instagram existed if you were lucky, but there were no smartphones. Because I didn't have a smartphone, I wasn't on Instagram yet; I used to borrow my girlfriend's iPhone just to post on it. The tools were incredibly limited, and it was very much a physical music directory kind of game.
Brad Eather: That is fascinating because that is exactly where sales finds itself right now. We are in a transition period where we have the digital tools available to adopt a completely different approach, but the old guard is still very much in place. You managed to successfully break through and present yourself as a recording artist. Can you talk us through that part of your career before we look at how things have fundamentally shifted?
08:11 - Sustaining Ownership and Passion During Institutional Shifts
Ronny: Back in 2010, it was the exact same approach with every single person I met. I would say, "These are the things that I want to do. Do you know anyone ?" I had a really big champion, Rosano from Sound Unlimited Posse, who introduced me to a number of people.
Borrowing some terminology from your world, I explored every single lead we had to see where it would take us. I kept pushing to put myself into new rooms and new experiences, even when I didn't know what the ultimate end result was going to be.
At one point, my songwriting and production partner was having a meeting for one of his artists. We used to go around together, so I was literally just sitting in the lobby reception while he was in his meeting. The manager ended up being really interested in the tracks and asked, "Who's writing all this stuff ?" My partner said, "My songwriting partnerâhe's sitting right out in reception." The manager said, "Bring him in!" We ended up getting signed to a development deal right then and there.
Later, I found myself in Malaysia and did the exact same thing. We went out there for an opportunity that didn't really pan out, so I just went on the internet, found every email and telephone number available, called them, emailed them, and took relentless meetings. We ended up meeting an artist there and producing a single for us. Because she couldn't afford to pay us fully, I negotiated to stay on the track as a featured artist. That single ended up going to number one and going completely crazy. It's all about just finding a way. Regardless of the tools available, if you're relentless enough, you'll find a way.
Brad Eather: What really shines through there is this idea of passion and ownership. You had a passion and a drive to get to where you wanted to go. Where other people might just have the passion to write the music, they don't take true ownership of the commercial side of their career. They don't go the extra mile to make those cold outreach calls and put themselves in the right rooms.
11:02 - Overcoming the Old Guard and Adapting to New Corporate Tools
Ronny: Behind the hustle is a massive amount of foundational work on the craft itself. In parallel to the networking, we were writing two to three songs a day. I was constantly doing the work on that side. The pushing and the hustling felt like a necessity because the creative work had already been done, and we were continuously improving. It's not just one or the other; it all happens in parallel.
Brad Eather: That work is what gives you the confidence to step into those rooms and proudly own who you are.
Ronny: Exactly.
Brad Eather: Let's look at this as a modern shift. That's how you did it back then, but things have completely changed. How would you do it differently if you were starting out today with the benefit of modern social media? How would your mindset shift?
Ronny: It's an interesting question and honestly something I am still trying to figure out myself, because 15 years later, I am back at the start of a new journey. I think the core approach remains the same. I always look at the industry as a field of rocks facing down. You have to go and turn over every single rock, have the conversation, and figure out whether that person is on your side, and whether that door is open or closed. You have to have conversations to figure out who is aligned with you.
You still have to do the background work so that you present yourself as someone who genuinely knows what they are talking about. The fundamentals are the same; there are just more tools now. The main difference today is that you can jump a couple of steps ahead by presenting yourself to the mass world immediately, getting people to hook in by showing a lot of your cards right at the start.
13:35 - The Shifting Expectation to Become a Content Creator
Brad Eather: How have expectations shifted from an industry perspective? Instead of having to rely purely on manual outreach calls, a creative can create content specifically to get a foot in the door at a studio, or take complete ownership of their career path. How have the expectations of a creative shifted over the last decade?
Ronny: The expectation on people now is that you have to do absolutely everything because the digital tools and access are readily available. You have to be a fully formed artist who acts as your own marketing manager, your own content creator, and your own strategist. The lines have completely blurred.
I was reading this morning that rapper Young Thug said he doesn't just want to be a rapper anymoreâhe wants to be a streamer and a content creator. Being an artist means so much more now by sheer necessity. You can't just be a silent, invisible person navigating in the background anymore. You can if you only want to do a tiny piece of something, but if you want to grow, you have to be visible and participate in all the available ways.
I can't even fathom how my early career would have changed if I had all the tools available today. I was literally calling people up, going to a location, and waiting all day in a smoky cigar room for someone who might not even turn up. You can approach people much easier now. But at the end of the day, if there are gatekeepers holding the keys, you still have to meet them. The difference now is that they can get a much better glimpse of who you are and a quicker chance to say yes or no based on the digital proof you can provide upfront.
16:23 - Curation vs. Metrics: Crossover Strategies for Business Leaders
Brad Eather: From an outsider looking into the music industry, it's a fascinating balance between the creative output and the raw business acumen you need to maintain simultaneously.
Ronny: The game has fundamentally changed, and it aligns with your world now: it is completely driven by metrics and numbers. You have to be an alchemist on the data side to even get attention. It's no longer just about what looks or sounds the shiniest.
To be completely honest, a lot of people in A&R don't even really know what they are doing anymore. It is no longer purely about artistic taste; it is entirely about metrics. The game has changed so much in the last 15 years that it feels like changing sports entirely. That's why starting my personal brand now feels like starting from scratch again.
Brad Eather: If we look back to the 1960s and 1970s, industries had massive budgets, and you had the classic trope of musicians spending months or years perfecting an album in the studio before release. Now, the timeline has compressed so much that you essentially have to promote as fast as you create. How has that compressed speed changed the curation and perfection of artistry versus the media that supports it?
Ronny: It's all about access now. The digital landscape acts as an equal playing field for anyone who isn't already a global superstar. If you are Taylor Swift, you aren't just running and gunningâyou have a massive machine and an entire team helping you curate that. But as an independent artist or a young person, you can do the exact same things because of access and speed.
People's attention spans are incredibly limited because we are spoiled for choice. If you don't hook someone on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok within the first three seconds, it's over. You could spend $10,000 on a high-end music video, but if you only post it on YouTube, who is actually going to discover it?
Now, creators realize they can just capture the raw process itself to hook people. But once you hook them, what do you do next? There was a creator who had a massive, viral TikTok song, and he literally rebelled against it, saying, "I'm not a TikTok artist. I don't want people to know me just for this." The big challenge today is: how do you convert that attention after the initial hook?
20:49 - How to Successfully Move Your Business Online Without Hesitancy
Brad Eather: What do you think that need for rapid content output does to core creativity? Do you think having to be creative across different digital outlets makes a person more creative, or does it dilute the art?
Ronny: Without sounding like the old man shaking his fist at a cloud, I don't want to say this is strictly terrible for creatives. It's an evolution, just like every industry goes through. There is definitely a generational difference.
People from my generation come from an era where you wanted a label to come and save you, where you spent a year creating the most perfect, shiny product. Today, it is much more about raw vibes and following formulas, like ensuring the hook appears in the first three seconds to catch immediate attention.
But I believe audiences still crave true artistry, and artists still want to be authentic artists. They are simply forced into a game where they have to balance both sides. Modern artists want you to hear their soul and everything they have to offer, but the way they pull you in is by executing this digital content strategy alongside the music.
Brad Eather: I want to draw a parallel to what I see in the sales industry. If I were to draw a hierarchy triangle, at the very top are the Taylor Swifts of the worldâthe people who have completely perfected their craft, and their production value is incredibly high. But down at the bottom are the independent creators and professionals utilizing basic tools.
It's the exact same thing in sales. You have the top performers, and then you have the people just starting out and honing their digital literacy skills. The people who actively build their digital skills show up in the feed, while the people who refuse to adapt simply don't. It's a learning trajectory you have to go through. Even if you only reach that middle tier, you are still going to get a significant commercial result.
The issue is that a lot of traditional salespeople refuse to take that initial leap into the digital world. They exhibit a strong hesitancy to take the first step into a modern digital environment.
25:42 - Becoming an Active Participant in Digital Spaces
Ronny: It's tough. Beyond those who don't want to take the step, you have people entering the industry at an entirely different baseline. If you are becoming an artist today, you already know what the entry expectation isâyou are often a creator first and an artist second.
The industry is the way it is now; it is not going backward. It's never going back to a time where you can opt out of digital participation and still succeed. If you want to be in the game, you have to actively participate. You can't just sit as a commentator in the stands complaining about how the game has changed and expect to get noticed.
Brad Eather: For salespeople out there, that is exactly the message I am trying to drive home: active participation is always required.
Ronny: It's always about participation. Throughout my journey on the business side and everything else, I've always tried to remain an active participant by continuing to release music and perform. If I am going to advise young artists or engineers on their careers, I need to be actively doing the work so I actually know what I'm talking about from a modern perspective.
Brad Eather: You have to have a holistic understanding of every single aspect.
Ronny: Exactly. Because I've stayed an active participant across all these areas, I feel uniquely qualified to speak to a young artist. Sometimes I roll my eyes at the legacy lifers who have only ever done one specific job in the industry for decades, yet try to lecture young creators on how to navigate the modern world.
What makes me so curious is that I am also a massive cynic. My cynicism drives my curiosity. I ask myself, "What do I think is the proper way, how do I find it, and how do I execute it?" I'm not convinced that what we are being fed by traditional gatekeepers contains the right messages for a kid starting out today.
Brad Eather: Through the act of participating, you gain a lens where you can think for yourself. When someone pushes a digital strategy online, you have a real frame of reference to evaluate whether you actually agree with it, rather than blindly following the crowd.
Ronny: How do you qualify and quantify messengers in the digital age? Are we listening to people purely because they are loud, or are we listening to people who couple genuine real-world experience in the specific field with proven success in the digital space? It's a massive challenge to properly qualify your teachers.
Brad Eather: There are loud people who can teach you how to do it their way, but the best advisors teach you how to do it your way.
Ronny: If you want to be a successful commercial artist, are you listening to advice from people who have actually achieved commercial success, or people who have only ever worked on hyper-localized community projects? That might sound salty to people in the industry who are trying to do well, but you have to ask: "What have you actually done to earn the right to advise these creators today?"
31:49 - Building Corporate Leverage Through Creative Problem Solving
Brad Eather: This is the perfect time to transition the conversation from pure creativity into the business world. Can you speak to how you originally transitioned into business, and how creativity has affected your strategic decision-making at a corporate level?
Ronny: It started with me simply pushing every single available avenue as a songwriter. If I was at Sony writing a song for Justice Crew or Shannon Noll, I had to figure out how to actually get that song placed. I had a great relationship with the artists, but the tracks weren't crossing the line.
I had to map the stakeholders. Who did I need to talk to? Was it the management? Let's build a relationship there. Was it the A&R executives? Let's form a relationship with them. Or was it the General Manager at the label? I was just trying to navigate through the corporate structure to find a way to win.
Through that process, I built a massive network from top to bottom across multiple spaces. After achieving success on the club charts here and across Asia, I decided to pull all of my resources together to create a creative agency. I wanted to take the "sexiness" of the music world and sell it into the corporate brand space.
In parallel, a friend of mine who had been brought in as part of the Studios 301 / Abbey Road crew had been watching my trajectory. He knew the relationships I held and the agency I wanted to build, and he told me there was an opportunity to join Studios 301. Because of how I was navigating the industry, they saw me as the right relevant person for the role. Things moved incredibly fast, and a couple of years later, I found myself as the General Manager of Studios 301.
Gatekeepers might open a door for you, but they won't keep you in the room. You have to take personal responsibility to keep yourself there and keep pushing. I simply applied all of my previous non-linear experiencesâwhether in PR, recruitment, or self-managementâand looked at running the corporation through that exact same entrepreneurial lens.
36:09 - Frameworks for Execution When No Clear Roadmap Exists
Brad Eather: Where do you find yourself today? In our prep interview, we discussed a brilliant new opportunity you've created for yourself at Factory. You pitched and manifested an opportunity out of thin air, and the way you built it is a masterclass in creative strategy. Can you talk about the strengths you identified in yourself and how you expanded something that didn't have a clear roadmap into a fully realized corporate role?
Ronny: It comes down to relationships and understanding your unique value. My modern role at Factory focuses on community, partnerships, and overseeing their global events. It started because I built a close relationship with the former business owner through partnerships we executed back when I was at Studios 301. After 301, I produced major events for a year, and when I knew that contract was winding down, I looked closely at my core strengths.
My strengths are building high-value communities, running complex events, and leveraging an extensive global network of elite creatives. I asked myself, "What value does this network hold if I'm not actively deploying it to solve problems in the market?" So I reached out directly and said, "I want to work with you guys. These are the strengths I proved at Studios 301. What is the most compelling thing we can build together, and here is exactly what I can execute for your brand."
I completely manifested the role; there wasn't a job advertisement listed anywhere. It was purely a relationship-driven pitch showing how my strengths could create a new commercial entity for them. I did the exact same thing with the team down at Synth Temple in Melbourne after being introduced to the CEO. I corporate-advised them until it reached a point where I said, "Here is how I can come in and actively contribute to your growth." I haven't formally applied for a standard job description in years.
Brad Eather: That level of execution requires immense professional confidence. Everyone experiences professional anxiety, so what gives you the confidence to take an abstract concept out of thin air and successfully pitch it to an organization?
Ronny: I wrote a blog post about this recently regarding the catalyst for creation and building a new identity. It is confidence, but it also comes down to deliberately pushing yourself into a corner where execution becomes an absolute necessity. Once I openly declare that I am going to build these things, I force myself to go out and create them.
My confidence is entirely built on my track record of creation. I am now 15 years deep into the Sydney music and business landscape. We recently applied for a major government grant, and I had to audit my resume and document every single entity, event, and program I had ever built. Looking at that data on paper, I thought, Holy shit, I've actually built a lot. That allows me to move forward with deep confidence because I have the historical proof that I can execute.
In corporate conversations now, I lay out my experience and say, "Here is what I've created, and here is the innovative concept of what we can build together." That is the exciting part for me. I never want to just "play the hits" and repeat the exact same business models; I want to create entirely new things because at my core, I am an idealistic creative.
Brad Eather: That ties perfectly back to taking complete ownership. It's about promising a high-value outcome before you even know every single mechanical step of how it's going to work, and having total confidence in your creative ability to piece it together under pressure.
Ronny: I think most peopleâeven if they aren't traditionally creative themselvesâdesperately want to be a part of a creative process, or at least witness it firsthand. They love working with strategists who can bring bold, non-linear ideas to the corporate table. The more corporate rooms I sit in, the more I realize businesses need lateral creative thinking.
I meet incredibly elite, technical experts who are brilliant in their narrow silo, but they admit they would never think to apply their assets in a creative, collaborative way. That's what I love about my modern partnership rolesâI am constantly challenged to think completely outside the square.
Brad Eather: What is your definitive definition of creativity?
Ronny: My definition of creativity is the ability to provide strategic guidance, absolute clarity, and a fully formed vision in a space where there isn't one. Whether it's at the inception stage of a project where you map the big picture, or during a crisis stage where an organization is panicking, you can step in and say, "Here is the exact hidden opportunity, and here are the non-traditional ways we can execute it."
Think of the classic story of the child with the purple crayon who literally draws his own reality into existence. That is the visual definition of creativity: providing a clear picture and absolute certainty to complex commercial questions.
Brad Eather: I really love that framework. You are the first pure creative I've posed this signature question to on the show. Other guests have noted that creativity is about operating within a structured framework and then deviating from it slightly, or connecting disparate ideas together. It requires intellectual risk-taking, and your definition aligns beautifully with that.
Ronny: It's exactly the same. Your real-world experience and industry context define the parameters of your framework. If someone comes to me wanting to write a commercial pop song, the modern market context dictates the frame. They want it to stream and blow up on TikTok. That means the hook must appear in the first 10 seconds, it needs a specific arrangement of two choruses and one verse, and the runtime must sit strictly between two and three minutes. The commercial reality provides the framework, but your creative ideas within that box are completely open slather.
The exact same rule applies in corporate business: your structural data and commercial experience define the framework, but true creativity is about intentionally breaking the legacy rules within that frame to find a better way forward. Some of the greatest business breakthroughs come from ideas that initially sound completely unhinged, but turn out to be crazy enough to work. You have to give yourself permission to think bigger and think differently.
Brad Eather: Fantastic, man. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thank you for joining me on the podcast. If people want to follow your journey and see where this next chapter takes you, where is the best place to connect?
Ronny: You can follow me directly on LinkedIn under Ron Haryanto. I also publish my unfiltered strategic thoughts on Instagram at @brandnewjones. We are building some incredibly cool resources and spaces for the creative industry right now, and I'm also launching my own podcast to document the journey.
Brad Eather: I highly appreciate it, Ron. It's always great catching up, and I'm sure we'll have another opportunity to continue the conversation down the track. For everyone tuning in, thank you for listening to the Selling's Creative Podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, please remember to like and subscribe. In the meantime, happy selling.
Ronny: Awesome. Thank you!
