ï»ż0:00 - Introduction to James Michael and the Sellingâs Creative Podcast
Brad Ether: Hello and welcome to The Sellings Creative Podcast, a show exploring creativity's role in salesâfrom motivation, process, and ideas to people development and success. I'm your host, Brad Ether, a digital communication sales consultant helping businesses develop digital sales strategies and mentoring salespeople in the skill set of social selling.
Today, I have the pleasure of being joined by James Michael, a sales veteran of over 30 years. Is it 30 years?
James Michael: God, now you make me think about itâyeah, I'm that old.
Brad: A massive car enthusiast and the owner of Justified Talent, a recruitment company specializing in helping small businesses employ their first sales hire with data-backed confidence. If you're interested in understanding the data backing creativity in sales, this episode is for you.
I'm particularly excited to be talking to James today for a few reasons. First, we're going to get into the data and explore the role creativity plays in the top quartile of B2B solution sellers. Second, I'm certain there are going to be some real actionable takeaways that make you reconsider your selling approach. Third, we're undoubtedly going to hear some great insights and stories from the 1900s. And fourth, this is the first podcast where I'm going to have to issue an official language warning before we go any further. So with that out of the way, James, how the fuck are we?
James: Fucking good, mate! Thank you. What an intro. I'm happy to be here. I'm not sure about the 1900s stuff, but anyway, we'll get there.
1:55 - Overcoming ageism in the workplace: The Justified Talent story
Brad: I wanted to kick off the conversation by pointing out to people that you're very outspoken about ageism in the workplace. I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your experiences entering the job market at 55, and the spark that triggered what ended up becoming Justified Talent.
James: Yeah, sure. You grabbed an important piece there: age 55. That was back in 2018. I can't do math anymore, but I'm almost 62 todayâI turn 62 on Christmas Day this year.
At age 55, I had just come out of a corporate role. I was highly qualifiedâliterally academically qualified and highly experienced with many, many years of work under my belt. I had even been globally recognized by my previous organization for the achievements I brought to the business.
I applied for, coincidentally, 55 jobs. There was no rhyme or reason to that number matching my age. At the 55th application, I just called it quits. Out of those 55 roles over a period of a couple of months, I heard back from exactly three recruiters. I still haven't heard back from the other 52, so I'm guessing I probably didn't get those jobs.
I sat back and thought, Hang on, what is going on here? I'm eminently qualified, Master's qualified, double-degree qualified, with decades of experience and global accolades, yet I'm not even getting a response. Then it hit me: Oh, I know, I've just joined a minority group. I'm part of the "old buggers" group, apparently. It seemed like, even in 2018, people felt like I was going to need a Nana nap at two in the afternoon. I probably wouldn't even be able to spell it, let alone use it. They decided it was time to consign me to the scrap heap.
That was one of two significant catalysts for creating Justified Talent. I figured if that is how recruiters are treating people, then there is plenty of room for someone who does things a little bit differently.
4:20 - Creative outlets as an adolescent: Nurturing childhood imagination
Brad: I want to get into how you're doing things differently in a bit, but first, let's go back to the beginning. One of the topics we explore on this podcast is the creative outlets we had as adolescents. I understand that school maybe wasn't the easiest place for you, and you considered yourself a bit of an introvert. I'd love to hear what school was like for you, the kind of creative activities you got involved in at lunch, and how that manifested in later years.
James: Yeah, sure. To kick off, I would neverâeven to this dayâdescribe myself as inherently creative, though I think I have some creativity in me. What I tend to do is take existing things and bolt them to something else to make them even better, like a 2 plus 2 equals 5 scenario. I've never been someone who is an ideator or a creator from genesis, so to speak.
At school, I was introverted and a bit of a dorky kid. I had a big noseâstill have it todayâso kids loved taking the mickey out of me, saying I looked like a Concorde airplane. I was pale-skinned and skinny, making me the perfect archetype to be picked on. I wasn't athletic, and I wasn't even academic. It would have been fine if I were a real nerd who was super academic, but I wasn't; I was bleeding average.
Like a lot of introverts, my way of escaping all of that was to go into my mind, and that's where my creativity would play. You kicked off by mentioning my passion for nice cars and driving them fast within the bounds of the law, and that really started as a kid. I spent a lot of my time after school playing with toy cars. The entire living room floor would become a town, a village, or a city. In my imagination, I was living in that town, driving those various cars.
At night, once my mom said lights out, I'd sneak under the covers, turn a flashlight on, and look at car brochures. I have a strong memory of one brochure for the Jaguar XJR, the two-door Jag. There was a scene where they photographed it on a glamorous street, either New South Head Road or Double Bay Road. I would turn the pages from seeing the full view of the car from the outside, to seeing it from the inside behind the steering wheel. In my mind, I would take that car for drives everywhere.
At school, this imagination sparked the beginning of my leadership journey, completely unbeknownst to me. I became the leader of a groupâI don't know if we were all dorks and nerds, but anywayâand we would drive around the playground at lunchtime. We would run around making car noises, simulating gear changes, handbrake turns, and sirens. That was my form of escape from a school environment where I was made to feel unwelcome and where even the teachers didn't think much of me because I wasn't academically gifted.
Brad: It's interesting that you say you weren't creative in that sense, because from an artistic standpoint, a collage is a perfect example of building something new on top of existing ideas. Later in this conversation, we'll get into the data backing the creativity of sales, and I think a lot of it plays right into what we're talking about. The other thing I notice is how you were using your mind to almost manifest your future with those cars. I have to ask: did you ever get the Jaguar?
James: No, I never got the Jaguar. However, a number of years back, I did get its younger cousin, a Range Rover Vogue. Since Jaguar and Land Rover are cousins under the same company, it's of the same vein. It was just as unreliable as every other Jaguar and cost a fortune to keep running. While I didn't get that specific Jag, I've had plenty of nice cars since, and these days I drive an Audi SQ5, which is pretty nice.
9:50 - How to hire your first salesperson: Crucial steps for small business
Brad: Turning back to Justified Talent, you have a highly specialized niche serving small businesses making their first sales hire. What needs to be considered in that first sales hire? Compared to a traditional recruitment agency, what is your differentiator, and what are you telling business owners to look out for?
James: Let me start answering that by sharing insights from a deep meta-study subsequently published in the Harvard Business Review. The distillation of that study shows that what most people consider the Holy Grail of recruitment is a basic five-point exercise: calling for a cover letter, reviewing a resume, conducting an interview, running some personality assessments, and checking references. Those are the staple elements of traditional recruitment.
However, the predictive reliability coefficient of those five things combined is a mere 0.26, where the ideal number is 1.0. In layman's terms, it means the traditional process only gets it right about 26% of the time. You literally could flip a coin and get a better hiring result than the esteemed, long-held recruitment process.
Our differentiator comes from addressing what is actually broken in the industry. Most people are aware that the average tenure of a B2B salesperson currently sits between 16 and 18 months. Very few people leave a sales job at the 18-month mark because they are at the zenith of their performance. In sales, it takes a good three years to truly hit your peak, and high performers tend to hang around for a three-to-five-year period. Yet, the industry average tenure is 18 months.
Concurrently, 56% of sales reps missed their target last financial yearâa number that has remained stagnant between 50% and 56% every year for the last decade. You have all these people leaving early and missing targets. If you look inside a business with five salespeople, they are all selling the same product into the same market, targeting the same ideal customer profile (ICP) with the same problems. They are using the same playbook and getting the same sales leadership, yet half of them will fail and leave by the 18-month mark.
It begs the question: what is missing? For us, the answer lies in the hardwired makeup of the individualâwhat is inside their head. To what degree does a person's natural behavioral wiring lend itself to success or failure in selling? Over the last six or seven years, research has shown that across the general population, only about 40% of people have the natural hardwiring required to succeed in a sales role.
Brad: It's worth mentioning at this point that you have a background in psychology, so you are analyzing and interpreting this data through that specific lens.
James: 100%. To finish that thought, our core differentiator is that we promise our clients precision data that is 300% more predictively reliable. We elevate that success coefficient from 0.26 up to 0.87. We haven't achieved a perfect 1.0 yet, and I doubt we ever will because humans aren't static machines or code, but jumping to 0.87 drastically increases the reliability of the hiring decision.
15:25 - The data of hiring a sales person: Predicting baseline performance
Brad: If there are any small business owners listening, I'm sure they know the intense financial risk involved in taking on a first sales hire. All of this is anchored in data analytics, so what is your actual process for acquiring these behavioral insights when people apply?
James: When candidates apply through us, we don't ask for a resume or a cover letter. Instead, we have them log into our portal to input their career history, provide their LinkedIn URL, and eventually submit a short "cover video."
Immediately after gathering their basic details, we ask them to complete a series of 30 to 50 screening questions. These are heavily focused on the technical aspects of the product or market they will be selling into, measuring their domain expertise.
From there, they undertake a proprietary temperament assessment that takes about 10 minutes to complete. We use this specifically to understand how they naturally react to stress. The instrument outputs a radar plot or spider graph. As stress levels increase, we watch how their behavioral data points shift, showing us exactly which "tools" they grab from their mental toolbag to cope. We are looking to see if they naturally grab the tools most effective at managing sales stress while still driving the right business result.
If the system awards them a 3, 4, or 5-star rating based on that temperament check, we advance them. Throughout the screening lifecycle, candidates work through five distinct assessments, each looking at them from different perspectives to paint a holistic picture of who they are, how they function, and how their hardwired default state compares to proven benchmarks.
It might sound like a long and onerous process, but out of the 11,000+ people who have applied for jobs through us over the last seven years, we maintain a 4.3-star candidate rating for how much they enjoy the application process.
20:00 - Real data backing creativity in sales and top quartile performers
Brad: Itâs fascinating to hear that instead of focusing strictly on past experience, you are looking at the individual as a personâanalyzing their default state and how they handle challenges in moments of high stress. That is a vastly different approach. I understand you also back this process with a guarantee?
James: Correct. We guarantee the new hire for six months. If they fail to deliver or miss their KPIs at any stage during that initial six-month period, we go back to market and find a replacement at no extra cost. When that happens, I usually scratch my head trying to figure out how the hell it occurred given our reliable assessment suite, but the replacement guarantee is there to protect the owner.
Brad: Now that we've covered how you collect this data, I want to discuss the findings, because some of your insights speak directly to the importance of creativity in the sales profession. Do you find these creative traits are skewed toward the small business first hire, or is this an overarching sales behavior?
James: It is an overarching sales behavior. Every single one of the 11,000 applicants we've profiled comes from a different background; many come from major Enterprise environments rather than just the SMB sector. What we consistently see is that top-quartile B2B solution sellers share a highly predictable behavioral pattern. When a candidate falls too far outside of this pattern across the metrics we measure, we can clearly predict that they are going to struggle in the role.
Of course, we also have to factor in qualitative nuances that we don't scientifically measure, such as whether a person can successfully transition from Enterprise to an SMB environment. I was having this exact conversation with a business owner yesterday who wanted me to headhunt sales reps from Enterprise. I pointed out to him that the challenge with Enterprise reps is that they are used to wandering down a hallway to a dedicated print room to look at a $30,000 color copier. In a small business, the print room is called Officeworks. You have to drive down the road yourself to get your documents printed.
That "roll up your sleeves" realityâknowing you don't have an executive assistant or a massive corporate infrastructureârequires a distinct mindset. Some people do not cope well when you strip away that supportive corporate ecosystem. Culture plays a massive part in small business success. In Enterprise, you have annual sales kickoffs and dedicated sales managers coaching you. In a small business, you are hoping the founder will coach you, but they usually won't because the founder is fundamentally a technician in the core thing they sell, not a professional sales coach.
23:30 - Measuring sales candidate optimism, resilience, and lateral thinking
Brad: This is a perfect time to dive into the specific data benchmarks. For those watching on YouTube or Spotify video, we are going to look at some charts that display how these performance benchmarks extrapolate into creativity. The first slide focuses on optimism and resilience.
James: Yes. The pentagon graphic you see is an Australian assessment tool called the Q2, administered globally by Team Management Systems out of Brisbane. The Q2 measures the explicit quotient of your focus on opportunities versus obstacles. It determines this by assessing five key areas around that pentagon: multi-pathways, time focus, fault finding, optimism, and moving towards goals.
Unlike many other assessments that measure fixed personality traits, the Q2 explicitly measures stateâthe current state of your mind at the exact time you take the snapshot.
The core creativity piece emerges directly within the Multi-Pathways metric. This looks at your mindset when you hit a wall. When you come up against obstacles, to what degree are you naturally inclined to look for ways around, under, or over them? How do you creatively deal with setbacks? A low multi-pathways score indicates a candidate who is likely to curl up in a ball and cry for mommy when a deal goes sideways.
The multi-pathways score measures the inherent degree of lateral, creative thinking you possess to overcome challenges. Sometimes you can rely on precedent, but in a solo sales environment inside a small business, you will face entirely new obstacles that have no precedent.
The other metric that heavily involves creativity is Fault Finding at the bottom, which sounds counterintuitive. Why would you want a salesperson who constantly finds fault? There is a saying I heard back in the 20th century: The amateur salesperson is the one who believes they have the sale 100% in the bag right up to the exact moment they lose it. They are completely blindsided.
Top-performing salespeople possess a healthy fault-finding score. They donât accept what a prospect says at face value. They are constantly asking themselves: Where could this go wrong? Who have I not spoken to yet? What internal blockages need to be cleared for this deal to progress?
Obviously, you donât want the fault-finding score to be dangerously high, because then you get a Negative Nancy who focuses exclusively on doom and gloom. But you also donât want a Naive Nancy with rose-colored glasses who thinks everything is perfect, because they will get taken by surprise. Healthy fault finding is creative thinking directed at identifying risk. It requires jumping into your imagination to see where a project might run off the rails, which taps directly into the creative brain.
29:07 - Assessing capacity for learning and technical domain expertise
Brad: The next slide illustrates the benchmark for Capacity for Learning. Looking at the data from the 11,000 entries, it looks like the ideal benchmark for top quartile performers sits right between a 6, 7, and 8 on the scale. Is that correct?
James: Yes. This comes from the Profile Sales Assessment, powered by the Profile XT engine from Profiles International (now owned by Wiley). It measures 18 behavioral factors, and this capacity for learning graph is one of the five factors that stands out as absolutely critical for a successful sales hire.
The scoring system subscribes to bell curve theory on a 1-to-10 scale. Typically, 68% of the population will land dead center at a 4, 5, 6, or 7. Our data shows that top-quartile B2B solution sellers have a capacity for learning that sits slightly above the general population normâthey score in the 6, 7, 8 range. They aren't theoretical Rhodes Scholars (scoring 9 or 10), but they are notably above average.
This has become vital in modern selling. We operate in a landscape where if you lack a high capacity for critical analysis, conceptual thinking, and rapid technology adoption, you will fail. Look at the modern "sales tech stack." Fifteen years ago, that term didn't exist. Today, an Enterprise sales rep regularly navigates between 6 and 11 different software platforms simultaneously.
Furthermore, we are long past the era of the basic "brochure drop," features-and-benefits sale. Buyers are overwhelmed with information; they need sales professionals who possess "sense-making" capacityâthe mental ability to help them make sense of a complex market.
If you look at the Challenger Selling model, being an effective Challenger isnât about being rude or obnoxious to prospects; itâs about making them stop and think deeply. You can only achieve that if you have the intellectual capacity to form profound, thought-provoking questions that make a buyer say, "Wow, I've never looked at it that way before." Creative thinking and ideation sit directly within this capacity for learning. You have to look past the surface to see things differently.
Brad: It circles right back to the collage idea. With a high capacity for learning, you are continuously gathering bits of information out in the wild, filtering them through your personal framework, and assembling them into a unique solution for a client's problem.
James: Absolutely. Closely linked to this is a genuine thirst for learning, which is driven by a kernel of creativity. The baseline desire to explore, know more, and make sense of complex realities requires creative curiosity. While Enterprise sellers often have structured professional development handed to them, an SMB seller usually has to go out and pioneer further education independently, making that thirst for learning a massive strategic advantage.
35:04 - The ambivert sales approach vs the myth of the extroverted seller
Brad: Letâs move to Sociability. When you first shared this specific data point with me, it stopped me in my tracks. In sales circles, the assumption is always that you need to be an extreme, fast-talking extrovert to succeed, but your data tells a completely different story.
James: It absolutely does. The long-standing myth of the successful salesperson is a raging extrovert who can talk underwater with a mouth full of marbles, out socializing, eating, and drinking everyone under the table. But our benchmarking of top-quartile B2B solution sellers shows that they consistently score in the 4, 5, and 6 range on sociability. This places them squarely as ambivertsâthe mid-point between introversion on the left and extroversion on the right.
To put that into context, 31% of the general population is naturally more extroverted than the world's top-performing sales professionals. When founders write job ads, even if they don't explicitly say it, they are usually looking for a heavy extrovert because they assume that baseline willingness to chat endlessly equates to sales power.
The data proves that is false. Creativity plays a major role here because an ambivert balances both sides. They will comfortably have the conversation, share insights, and socialize the value proposition, but then they will naturally step back into a curious, observant mode. They don't hide in a cave, but they stop talking and ask questions.
There is a hackneyed phrase: Try to be more interested than interesting. Top quartile performers possess a genuine desire to be deeply interested. They aren't trying to dump everything they know onto the table, which is a classic high-extrovert trap. They focus on a back-and-forth conversation: "Tell me more about that. Help me understand how that works." Inquiry, deep curiosity, and active listening require a strong kernel of creative thinking.
Brad: Without active listening and targeted questioning, you simply cannot extract the deep customer insights required to build a custom solution that guides a buyer through a complex process.
James: Exactly. When less experienced or less capable salespeople hear a buyer finish a sentence, they feel an intense panic to fill the void with noise. Extroverts are deeply uncomfortable with silence. An ambivert, however, will take what the prospect just said, reflect on it in silence for a moment, and tap into their creative and intellectual capacity to form a meaningful response or ask a deeper question. That moment of silence is the creative brain at work.
Brad: That reminds me of my time working in retail in the UK, selling electronics and TVs. At the end of the transaction, we had to pitch the add-on insurance policies and wall brackets. I was incredibly successful at it simply because I would state the pitch, shut up, sit in the silence, and let them think to make their decision without budding back in. Is that a similar dynamic?
James: 100%. A high extrovert has immense difficulty doing that because they abhor a conversational vacuum, and silence is a vacuum. You regularly see salespeople ask what I call "triple-barrel questions." They will ask a question, rephrase it slightly, rephrase it a third time, and then start answering it for the customer because they can't handle the quiet. An ambiverted person is completely comfortable throwing the question out there and leaving the space open for the other person to speak.
41:44 - Manageability in sales recruitment: Why you need rule benders
Brad: The next metric is Manageability. I like this one because it speaks to both the management environment and the internal behavioral traits of the individual.
James: Yes. If I owned this assessment tool, I would change the label from manageability to Creativity, because this metric is entirely about the inherent creative drive hardbaked into a person.
Candidates scoring far on the right side (the 8, 9, 10 zone) are strict adherents to rules, policies, precedents, and corporate guidelines. Someone scoring a 10 out of 10 for manageability will literally ask permission to ask permission. On the far left, scores of 1 and 2 represent pure rule-breakers. Scores of 3, 4, and 5 represent rule-benders.
Our data shows that top quartile B2B solution sellers consistently land at a 3, 4, or 5. They maintain a fundamental respect for organizational guidelines and the company playbook, but they possess an innate, hardwired ability to be highly creative and adaptable in the moment. They are adaptable rule-benders. They look at things differently to find a unique path forward.
No business owner writes a job ad on Seek saying, "I'm looking for an unruly sales rep who constantly challenges my authority and bends our processes." You would never write that, but the data proves that is exactly what you need to look for if you want a top performer. In a modern B2B sales environment, things are rarely paint-by-numbers. You cannot show up with a rigid, preconceived solution; the offering must be creatively tailored to the customer's unique situation, and rule-benders excel at that customization.
Brad: To make this tangible, you use a fantastic metaphor regarding the "rules of the road" to explain this balance. I'd love for you to share that.
James: When any of us hop into a car to drive home, we are all subject to the exact same foundational rules of the road. We know we must drive on the left side of the street, a double solid line means no overtaking, and the number in the circle is the maximum legal speed limit. Yet, every single one of us has a completely unique driving style.
When you hire a salesperson who is a 3, 4, or 5 on manageability, they might occasionally seem resistant to exactly how you want things done because they aren't clones of you. My advice to founders is to define the clear rules of the road: be crystal clear about the guardrails, the legal boundaries, and the core metrics. But once those guardrails are set, allow them to use their unique driving style within them. A rule-bender understands why the rules exist, but their creativity allows them to spot a unique route or solution in the middle of a deal that can mean the exact difference between winning and losing.
47:19 - Customer centricity and navigating the sales negotiation phase
Brad: The final bonus slide covers Customer Centricity.
James: The actual label on the assessment tool for this metric is Accommodationâthe degree to which we are naturally inclined to bend to the will of others to accommodate their needs.
People working in customer support, customer success, or service roles typically score very high here, around a 7, 8, or 9. People at a 9 or 10 are completely obsessed with never making anyone upset.
However, the top quartile sales performers all cluster down at a 3, 4, or 5. This means a top rep will listen to a prospect, understand their needs, but have the internal fortitude to say, "I hear what you are asking for, but we cannot do it exactly that way." This triggers a massive moment of creativity: âWhat we can offer instead to solve your problem is X, Y, or Z.â
Less capable reps who score high on accommodation will immediately discount their price or give away corporate margin the second a buyer pushes back. A 3, 4, or 5 rep is wired to not just automatically give in. They lean into lateral thinking to create a genuine win-win scenario.
I'm often reminded of the famous quote attributed to Henry Ford: "You can have the Model T in any color you want, as long as it's black." High performers aren't quite as rigid as a 1 or 2 on the scale, but their 3, 4, 5 placement gives them the confidence to stand firm while accessing their creative reserves to find an alternative that moves the deal across the line. As we look at the sales cycle, this specific creative trait lands firmly in the negotiation phase.
51:40 - Introverted vs extroverted sales approach: Where LinkedIn fits in
Brad: I love how that maps out. Using lateral thinking, sitting comfortably in silence, and crafting a win-win during negotiation is an art form.
Looking back at the concepts of introversion, extroversion, and ambiversion, it impacts selling styles heavily. The classic extrovert relies on massive quantityâpounding the phones and walking the streets constantly. An ambiverted or introverted approach might focus heavily on quality over quantity.
I know you are a massive advocate for LinkedIn. In our pre-interview, we talked about finding a digital comfort zone that fits your communication style. For me, I love broadcasting to a large group digitally, and then stepping out of my comfort zone into an extroverted state to host a podcast or make direct sales calls. I'd love to hear your experience selling through a platform like LinkedIn and how you manage that dynamic.
James: The first thing I'll clarify is that I'm actually not an ambivert; I am a deep introvert. It's worth mentioning because people worry that psychometric assessments just shove you into an absolute box. We measure 18 things, and because the benchmarks allow for slight variations left or right on the scale, there are over 8.8 million different behavioral profiles that can successfully fit our sales benchmark. We are looking for a 64% or greater match, not absolute perfection.
As a deep introvert, social settings were tough for me as a kid; I was socially awkward. But I learned quickly in business that I couldn't just sit in a pure introvert shell and achieve commercial success. You have to communicate with people. A person can intentionally push themselves outside of their natural behavioral comfort zone if they have the intellectual and emotional intelligence (EQ) to do so.
However, trying to operate outside your default state on more than three of the 18 metrics for a sustained period is exhausting and leads straight to severe burnout.
For me, LinkedIn was an absolute gift. I have a lot of opinions and insights to share with the world, as you can tell from how much I've talked today. I don't share to show off or be a smartass; I genuinely want to help people. But my capacity to do that via grueling one-on-one conversation is limited. If I don't talk to another human being for the rest of the day after we finish this podcast, Brad, I will be perfectly fine.
Instead of draining my energy, I use my keyboard three days a week to share my views on LinkedIn. I write long-form text, and occasionally do video to suit different audience preferences.
LinkedIn has been a lifesaver for an introverted salesperson. When I first got into sales in the last century, your total addressable market (TAM) was discovered by flipping through the physical Yellow Pages. You had no clue who was who, and you had to do raw cold calling. Today, using LinkedIn and Sales Navigator, you can instantly define your exact audience and share value-add insights directly with them. It allows you to get your knowledge socialized in the world without actually having to be a highly social person.
I joined LinkedIn in its early days assuming it was just a clever digital resume. It wasn't until 2018 that I realized it is essentially my own giant Coca-Cola billboard at the top of William Street. I've gone nuts with it ever since. As a result, from 2019 up until just a couple of months ago, I have never made a single outbound sales call. My entire pipeline has been driven by inbound inquiries, referrals, and repeat business.
58:54 - Why data-backed creativity wins high-value B2B deals
Brad: That ties beautifully into everything we've mapped out today. If someone identifies as an introvert, an ambivert, or a creative person, these benchmarks show there is a clear place for you in modern sales. In the modern digital age, you can choose communication styles that map to your strengths to get your message across. True creativity in sales is that out-of-the-box lateral thinking: How do I creatively win attention, progress the deal, protect margin during negotiation, and structure a win-win? LinkedIn inbound selling maps perfectly into those core elements of creativity.
James: I wholeheartedly agree. I put a post up this morning promoting a long-form article I wrote about the fundamental difference between "push" and "pull" marketing and sales, and why the pull methodology functions so powerfully on LinkedIn. You showcase your expertise and attract the client.
Furthermore, the platform actively rewards people for being genuinely creative in how they present content. I saw a brilliant post this morning by Leanne Hughes here in Australia. She put up a three-minute video showcasing her 2025 keynote speaker showreel. It was incredibly vibrant, bright, and creatively distinct from standard corporate showreels. The digital landscape absolutely encourages creative people to take a crack and stand out.
Brad: I love the push-pull concept. For our listeners, we discussed the "Magnet Principle" in a previous episode, which is the exact philosophy of attracting customers rather than chasing them down.
1:02:28 - Career advice and networking wisdom for young professionals
Brad: What core wisdom would you impart to a young person entering the workforce today?
James: I generally detest the popular phrase, "Your network is your net worth," because I hate the corporate language of it, but the baseline fact is true: connections count. Who you are speaking with, taking advice from, sharing ideas with, and using as a wise sounding board makes all the difference in the world.
You need to thoughtfully and intentionally assemble your network. Don't just mindlessly connect with people simply because they exist on a platform to drive up a superficial follower count; build deep, intentional connections. A deep network opens professional doors, but more importantly, life deals up tough cards from time to time. Having a trusted circle outside of your immediate daily work environment to talk to when things are uncomfortable makes all the difference.
Brad: Itâs a very different landscape for young people today. Growing up in your era without the internet forced you to network face-to-face in the physical world. Now, we are easily stuck behind screens, and networking can feel like a chore. There are fewer natural face-to-face meetups, meaning real relationship-building requires actively forcing yourself out of your comfort zone to seek real-world connections. James and I met digitally on LinkedIn, but it evolved into a real relationship.
James: To wrap that concept up, Abraham Lincoln once perfectly said, "I don't like that person. I must get to know him better."
Brad: That is brilliant. Traveling the world throughout my career in sales has allowed me to meet people from all cultures and backgrounds daily. You never know who you are going to meet or what slight insight you will gain that could completely alter how you view the world or reshape your entire selling approach.
1:06:20 - What is the definition of creativity?
Brad: Our final signature question to close out the episode: James, what is your personal definition of creativity?
James: For me, creativity is a state of being intensely curious and completely open to exploration, with a view to building, bringing, or doing something new. It doesn't have to be a life-altering, monumental shift; it can be a simple, smart iteration on an existing process. It is all about entering a state of active curiosity.
One of the things I love most about human beingsâthe singular trait that completely distinguishes us from almost every other living creature on earthâis our imagination. Wherever you are sitting right now listening to or watching this podcast, look around you. Pretty much everything that falls into your field of vision was once nothing more than a faint idea inside someone's mind. The recording platform we are using, this conversation we are having, the technology to broadcast it globallyâyears ago, it was just an idea sparked by curiosity. It sounds a bit waffly, but that is my definition.
Brad: I love that answer, itâs beautiful. Where is the best place for people to find you if they want to reach out?
James: LinkedIn is where I hang out most and where I am readily accessible. If you go to my profile, you will find all my direct contact details. I don't hide my phone number or my email address; I am happy to take the spam because I am always hungry to connect. LinkedIn is the best spot.
Brad: Tremendous. It has been an absolute pleasure speaking with you and sharing your data-backed insights today. Thank you for your time, James.
James: Likewise, thank you, Brad! Good on you.
